Foundation Archive: Reuben Cannon

Growing up in the housing projects on Chicago’s South Side during the 1960s, Reuben Cannon knew he wanted to be a singer and performer.

But adolescence saw an end to his sweet tenor voice, forcing him to scrap his plans. Still, he couldn’t let go of the idea that somehow he was destined for Hollywood.

"While there's a performer in me, the idea of empowering other performers and encouraging other actors appealed to me," he says. "Having had a short career as an actor, I understood the emotions that they have to draw upon to do various roles."

As a young man, Cannon had a series of jobs, reading gas meters in Chicago and working in a steel mill. When a friend suggested he try for the Hollywood studios, Cannon started saving for airfare.

While he would begin on the bottom rung, in the mailroom at Universal Studios, when a job opened in the casting department, he applied and got it.

In short order, Cannon would become the industry's first African-American casting director.

During a lengthy career in which he would not only head studio casting departments and eventually open his own agency, Cannon would make many life-changing decisions for actors such as Bruce Willis — whom he cast on Moonlighting — and Mr. T., on The A-Team. He would also open doors to many minorities looking to break into Hollywood,

Most recently Cannon was an executive producer of the American Masters documentary And Still I Rise, about the life of Maya Angelou. It's scheduled to air on PBS this fall.

Cannon was interviewed in October 2014 by Adrienne Faillace, producer for the Television Academy's Archive of American Television; an edited excerpt of that conversation follows. To view the entire interview, please visit TelevisionAcademy.com/archive.

Q: What were some of your interests as a kid?

A: I had a wonderful first-tenor voice, and I won a talent show when I was 10 or 12.

I was given a scholarship to a community theater and did various plays around Chicago. Then my voice changed and I overheard people in the theater saying, "He can't sing, he can't act. What are we going to do with him?" That kind of guided me. I decided I wanted to be the person in charge of hiring and staffing, as opposed to a performer.

Q: How did you break into the industry?

A: A friend called and said, "If you come out to L.A. I can provide a sofa for you to sleep on, You can get the studio job that you've always talked about. You can really work in the arts." I saved $500 and bought a one-way ticket to Los Angeles in 1971.1 had faith that I knew how to work. I wouldn't starve. And between the prayers of my sister, my mother and other family members, I knew I would be okay.

When I arrived, I made the rounds and filled out applications at all the studios.

My uncles had given me a philosophy of how to get a job: go to the place where you're seeking employment the day after payday. That's the time when someone will have gone out and partied and won't show up. I got my job as a busboy at a restaurant that way. I got my job at the steel mill that way. I applied that same principle in Hollywood.

On New Year's Eve I was sitting outside the personnel department at Universal and a gentleman named Jim Harris said, "Reuben, we need some help in the mailroom because two of the mail boys are stuck at a ski resort in northern California."

Q: How did you move from the mailroom to the casting department?

A: Whenever there's a position available, it's posted first in the mailroom, because the mailroom has this so-called executive training program, where the studio would first look for staffing. A position became available in the casting department.

Q: What was the first show you worked on?

A: Ironside. The executive producer was Cy Chermak, and he was very boisterous. Various casting directors had been hired to cast Ironside — and had been fired by Cy. No one lasted more than a season or half a season. Finally there was no one left in the department to hire as a casting director other than Ralph Winters, who was the department head.

Ralph said to me, "I want you to go with me and pay close attention. The next season I want you to take over the show." I had put myself on a regimen of 20 hours of television, two films and two plays per week. If I was in a room with a producer or director, I wanted to be the most knowledgeable. When I stepped in to do the casting for Ironside, I ended up doing the series for three years,

Q: You also cast Sanford and Son....

A: Jane Murray had cast the pilot and the series, but Redd Foxx said, "I want a black casting director." I was the only black casting director in Hollywood. So I made a deal to cast the show under the table at $500 per episode. I was also casting The Rockford Files and Baretta for Universal Studios, and unbeknownst to Universal I was casting Sanford and Son at $500 a week.

Q: Later, at Warner Bros., you cast the mini-series Roots: The Next Generations....

A: It was such a phenomenal experience! We had everyone from unknowns to Marlon Brando. The bar had been set so high because of Roots. This story was a continuation, and the scripts were excellent. Everyone wanted to be part of it. Marlon Brando wrote a letter to Alex Haley [the book's author] saying, "If there's a sequel I'd like to be part of it." Finding roles for so many black actors, to be able to hire so many actors I admired, it was a crowning glory for me.

Q: Are there any memories from that experience you'd like to share?

A: Maybe the highlight was the day that Marlon Brando shot his scene. There was some concern among the producers that he wouldn't show up, so we hired Anthony Zerbe and paid him $5,000 to stand by. But Brando showed up. When it came time for him to work, it was a closed set, James Earl Jones was there, playing Alex Haley — it was based on a real episode in his life, one in which he was given the assignment to interview George Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of the American Nazi party.

I entered the soundstage, and I could hear Brando's voice. I stood in the back to watch the rehearsal. I could see people holding up cue cards for Brando. There were cue cards on the ceiling and on the floor, and [in character] he was questioning Alex Haley about his lineage,

He was saying something like, "You know, you must have a lot of white blood in you to be as smart as you are...," and the lines he's saying are on a poster behind James Earl Jones's head. Then he shakes his pipe on the ground and there's some dialogue on the ground, and he says, "...Because you're just too smart to have all Negro blood in you."

When it was cut together, it was a brilliant performance. I'd heard about the cue cards, but Brando had such a technique that you didn't realize it,

Q: You started your own company in 1978....

A: I'll tell you what inspired that. I was under contract to Warner Bros, as head of casting. After I finished casting Roots: The Next Generations, I was overseeing all the other casting that they had — sitcoms, dramas, movies-of-the-week. There was so much production that the casting department couldn't accommodate it all. We had to outsource projects.

During that period — around '78, '79 — the largest independent casting director was a gentleman named Lynn Stalmaster. Warner Bros, hired Lynn to cast a movie for television. When I saw what he was being paid for one movie-of-the-week — and looked at my salary — I made a request not to have my contract renewed and promptly hung out my shingle as Reuben Cannon & Associates.

Q: When Stephen J. Cannell became an independent producer, you cast all of his shows. What was it like to cast The A-Team?

A: Oh, what fun that was! The script was fantastic. The challenging role to cast was Bad Ass Baracus. That idea came from Joel Thurm, the head of casting. Mr. T had appeared in Rocky III, and he said, "We should take a look at this guy."

As it turned out, Mr. T and I went to the same high school, though not at the same time. He grew up in a housing project in Chicago, so when he came in, we talked about our experiences in Chicago.

When he got the job, he didn't have an agent. I sat with him, went over his contract and told him, "You need to get representation because you don't know what's about to happen. This could really change your life."

Well, The A-Team became huge, not just in this country, but around the world. The cast was on a promotional tour in Sweden and they appeared a week after the Pope — and drew a larger crowd than the Pope!

Q: And in 1985 you cast Moonlighting....

A: I had worked with [creator-executive producer] Glenn Gordon Caron on two other pilots.

The concept for Moonlighting was — if it were a film — it would have starred Jessica Lange and Bill Murray, beautiful socialite and unpredictable personality. I had hired four other casting directors around the country, including Canada, to search for this unpredictable character.

We knew Cybill Shepherd was the prototype for the socialite, but she wasn't sure she wanted to do the role. I said, "Let's at least have a meeting." So I met with Cybill, and she couldn't have been more gracious or more beautiful — it was almost like she was backlit.

It was mid-afternoon, and it was like there was an aura around her,

Q: How was she convinced to take the part?

A: She told me how much she liked the script, but she reserved her commitment until we found the leading man. This truly was a duet, and the show would either rise or fall based on who the guy was,

At one point I think easily 1,500 actors had read for the part of David Addison. Someone called and said, "Reuben, when you were in New York, you missed Bruce Willis [on stage]. He's in LA. on vacation. Will you meet with him?"

Q: And, of course, you did...

A: Bruce came in, literally propped himself up on the file cabinet and became the character. [What happened next exemplifies] what I call the Ray Charles Theory about casting.

When you hear a role so many times, you develop almost a tin ear — you're anticipating what the response is going to be. But when you let an actor read, you can't anticipate because it's a different energy, and so you pay attention. It's like hearing it for the first time.

I call it the Ray Charles Theory because when he sings "America the Beautiful," even though we know the song, it's like hearing it for the first time because it's coming through his genius.

Q: What happened next?

A: I made a two-week holding deal [with Willis] on the spot. Then we took him to the network and the head of ABC Entertainment, I think it was Brandon Stoddard. He said to me, "Apparently you don't know what a leading man is. Bruce Willis is a character actor. If you can't find this role, I'm going to ask you to step aside and let me hire a casting director who can."

I was fired. But during that two-week period, Cybill agreed to do a video presentation with Bruce. Bob Butler, who directed the show, shot the scene and it was magic.

The network president, once again, had so little confidence in what everyone else was responding to, he ordered a test with audience research. They brought in a group of people and asked one question: "Would you watch this actor on TV every week?" The answer was a resounding yes. We hired Bruce, I was rehired and got a bonus when it went to series.

Q: How did you go about casting Oprah in the feature film The Color Purple?

A: Quincy Jones was in Chicago, and while he was there, he turned on the television and saw a young woman named Oprah Winfrey on A.M. Chicago. He called me in New York and said, "I'm looking at a local show here, and this woman could be right for the role of Sofia." 1 said, "Well, I'll be coming to Chicago. I'll arrange to meet with her."

I called her producer, and she sent me a tape of Oprah's one-woman show in which she portrayed black historical figures — civil rights activist Fannie Lou Hamer, journalist Ida B. Wells.... It was very impressive.

Q: How did your meeting with her go?

A: I went out to Chicago on one of the coldest days of the year. I'm in the office, and there's a knock on the door. I answer and there's Oprah.

She said, "I'm here to see Reuben Cannon," and I said, "I'm Reuben Cannon."

She said, "Look, Mister, I have a 101 temperature. I got out of my bed to come here. I don't have time for games. I want to meet Reuben Cannon." I said, "What makes you think I'm not Reuben Cannon?"

And she caught herself — she didn't think Reuben Cannon was black. We had a laugh. She came in and we started talking.

Then she said, "Well, you know I'm destined to play this role." I said, "Really?" Up to that point we had been operating under a false title — we wouldn't say The Color Purple. But Oprah said, "This is about The Color Purple, isn't it?" I said, "Yes, it is." She said, "I'm destined to play the role of Sofia."

I said, "Why do you say that?" She said, "Well, Oprah spelled backwards is Harpo. And Harpo is the husband to Sofia. I'm meant to play this part." A week later I had a casting director videotape her, and I showed it to Steven Spielberg. He thought it was terrific.

Q: What do you think your impact in Hollywood has been?

A: Even though I was the first black casting director, at one point there were seven — and all seven had worked in my office as interns, My legacy in Hollywood is not so much about the stars I helped discover or promote, but more about the others who worked with me, people that I encouraged to pursue careers in entertainment. Those I might have inspired with a word or with a working experience.

If I can be remembered as someone who encouraged and empowered others along the way, especially people of color, I will feel that I have made a contribution to Hollywood that will be everlasting.

For the full interview, please visit our Archive.